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Post by osidak on Jan 12, 2013 19:07:01 GMT -4
Ok so I bought a Chaos 450 off a fellow member here. Came with hitec cyclic servo's and an Align ds520 tail servo. Phoenixtech ESC and gyro and motor
With that configuration I could not get the get the tail to stop twitching. Got a Spartan ds760 off another member and got it all setup per the instructions and while better it is still twitching. On my Hitec A9 under heading hold I have the gyro gain down as low as 15. The tail slowly oscillates but the nose remains pretty much where I put it.
I have increased the head speed, decreased the head speed, I have lowered pitch settings, the carbon tail rod feels like it is moving smoothly and with out bind. I went to a linear throttle curve instead of a rapid climb to 85%+ like I normally like on my normal setting. Because of this the esc is now running warmer. My transmitter is telling me the receiver is seeing 5.5 volts. I would like to bump this to 6 but I can not find directions for the ESC to see if it is even possible.
If I configure a servo delay in the radio the twitch goes away but then I can not fly the helicopter as it doesn't respond to tail inputs quick enough.
I noticed in forward flight the oscillation seems to almost go away.
Is it the servo.... is it the 5.5 volts from the ESC or is it just a cursed heli and I need to get rid of it. I thought I was splurging a bit and treating myself to a "nicer" 450 but so far my el cheapo Dynam Erazor 450 has been a much better heli and at a fraction of the cost.
Oh and I currently have the ball on the tail servo as close to the pinion as I can make it (drilled a new hole in the arm) because the Spartan docs said if you need to be below 35% on the gain then you have too much mechanical gain and need to put the ball closer to the center of the arm. I burned through 6 packs today just trying to make this work.
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Post by Dr. Evil on Jan 12, 2013 20:07:41 GMT -4
Ok so I bought a Chaos 450 off a fellow member here. Came with hitec cyclic servo's and an Align ds520 tail servo. Phoenixtech ESC and gyro and motor With that configuration I could not get the get the tail to stop twitching. Got a Spartan ds760 off another member and got it all setup per the instructions and while better it is still twitching. On my Hitec A9 under heading hold I have the gyro gain down as low as 15. The tail slowly oscillates but the nose remains pretty much where I put it. I have increased the head speed, decreased the head speed, I have lowered pitch settings, the carbon tail rod feels like it is moving smoothly and with out bind. I went to a linear throttle curve instead of a rapid climb to 85%+ like I normally like on my normal setting. Because of this the esc is now running warmer. My transmitter is telling me the receiver is seeing 5.5 volts. I would like to bump this to 6 but I can not find directions for the ESC to see if it is even possible. If I configure a servo delay in the radio the twitch goes away but then I can not fly the helicopter as it doesn't respond to tail inputs quick enough. I noticed in forward flight the oscillation seems to almost go away. Is it the servo.... is it the 5.5 volts from the ESC or is it just a cursed heli and I need to get rid of it. I thought I was splurging a bit and treating myself to a "nicer" 450 but so far my el cheapo Dynam Erazor 450 has been a much better heli and at a fraction of the cost. Oh and I currently have the ball on the tail servo as close to the pinion as I can make it (drilled a new hole in the arm) because the Spartan docs said if you need to be below 35% on the gain then you have too much mechanical gain and need to put the ball closer to the center of the arm. I burned through 6 packs today just trying to make this work. Hey bro., don't beat yourself up too much about it...I know it can be a pain when trying to figure out something as simple as a twitching sound coming from a servo. Maybe because it's an Align servo? LOL... Anyways, have you tried swapping out for another to see if it may be just a bad tail servo? I would suggest to do that first if you havn't done it. As for the Spartan gyro, I don't think that is causing all this. Matter of fact, when my stock phoenixtech tail servo on my 600 went out earlier last year, I replaced it with a Power HD one and it has done exactly what you're describing and still today even going from FB to FBL...it is still doing it so I know it isn't the gyro. The thing works perfectly fine but just likes to make that twitching sound. BTW, I think when you have the gain as low as 15...you're no longer in a HH mode setting and I probably wouldnt try and fly it that way. Also, when you fly it, is the tail wagging or pretty solid?
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Post by osidak on Jan 12, 2013 22:54:09 GMT -4
It is not a twitching sound the tail is twitching (aka wagging) My understanding is that in heading hold I have from 0 - 100 and rate mode I have from 0 - 100
it bears out from what I can see as from 10 and above the nose will stay where I put it but the entire time the tail is wagging back and forth. The higher the gain the less over all movement but the faster more violent the wag is. the lower the number the less it holds in a pitch pump but the slower and more exaggerated the movement is.
I don't think it is the Spartan either.... I was hoping the gyro swap would do it but nope. So I am left with ESC not putting enough juice out to make things happy (would love to find some directions on setup for that esc), the tail servo is just not happy (remember I bought everything used) or I am just too stupid to get this thing setup to be happy... and that is entirely possible and actually the preferred cause at the moment as I am ready to stop spending money on it and fly.
From everything I can see and tell the setup is spot on. Tracking is perfect pitch is where it should be. I do not have massive amounts of subtrims.
I do not currently have anything I can swap out with the align tail servo, but guess I will bite the bullet one more time and spend some more money on it
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Post by Dr. Evil on Jan 12, 2013 23:18:19 GMT -4
Yeah, I am guessing the best thing you can try at this point is to swap out the tail servo. May I suggest for test purposes is to pull one of the cyclics and try it as a tail. I know the tail is a faster servo but for testing purposes I believe it will atleast tell you if indeed it's the servo or something else. Just a thought before going and spend money on a new tail servo.
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Post by Dr. Evil on Jan 12, 2013 23:19:21 GMT -4
......btw, I will try and see if I can find some info. on that stock esc you have there.
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Post by Chris Reibert on Jan 13, 2013 1:15:07 GMT -4
Are the rear tail hubs tight? I am actually putting my 450 back together tonight. I went FBL and could not get the damn tail setup with the BeastX. Kept trying all different gains and HS. Found out my tail grips were unscrewing, tried reloctite and same thing. Threw some Align tail grips and pitch slider on it tonight with loctite. If rain holds out I'll be setting it up tomorrow! Make sure everything is tight and moves Freely with no binding or notchyness. I use the Power HD tail servos that come with the super combo and love them! I had another 450 I couldnot get the wag out if and relized the tail was binding up. Check Everything! Maybe take it apart and re assemble I would not use a cyclic servo. Rule out ll mechnical build issues first What radio do you use! I know on the DX7 and DX8 0-100 is HH mode and -0 - -100 is Rate mode.
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Post by osidak on Jan 13, 2013 1:45:51 GMT -4
hitec a9 is the radio. will tear the tail down again and see what i find.
As for HH or Rate- as long as the little blue light is on, on the Spartan I am seeing heading hold. I can pitch pump it and the nose will hold. Better if I am running closer to 25 which is the max I can run before the wag gets too violent and I risk a crash.
The light on the gyro only turns off when I flip the switch and then I am clearly in rate mode but I am seeing the same wag there as well.
Can also see the different modes when on the ground and I move the heli's tail from side to side. HH the rotor swings and holds - Rate and the rotor moves then returns to neutral
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Post by Chris Reibert on Jan 13, 2013 7:46:22 GMT -4
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Post by osidak on Jan 13, 2013 10:40:58 GMT -4
The tail servo is an Align ds520 and is running at the same speeds that the other tail servos run. Now if it is actually running that way is a different question and I don't really have a way to test. The Gyro is mounted on the little plate right behind the swash and is really the only place I could see to mount it.
The only RF source I could think of would be the motor and the antenna. I have the reciever mounted to the left side of the heli which takes up pretty much the entire side of the frame between the motor cut out and the rear of the frame. The plugs for the front of the reciever are over the cut out.
The ESC was way to long to fit under the battery tray like the align instructions call for so it is mounted under the bottom tray/skids and taped (3m body tape) and zipped tied. The wires for the elevator servo, rudder and gyro run near the antenna on the way to be plugged in.
I will snap a photo and post in a bit. Won't be able to play with it until later as I need to change a timing belt on the car today.
I am not the best wiring layout kind person but it is similar to my erazor but I was able to get the reciever on the inside of the frame on that one because of the way the rudder servo mounts is different
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Post by Chris Reibert on Jan 13, 2013 12:48:21 GMT -4
Well I got the tail wag issue taking care of, throttle curves were right on, pitch curves good, and Boom the f#%^ing Align DFC head explodes. It spit a blade grip. That's twice I've had issues with this head. Idk why I tried this shitty head again.. There goes my Sunday. Nano time I guess...
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Post by Dr. Evil on Jan 13, 2013 14:19:48 GMT -4
Well I got the tail wag issue taking care of, throttle curves were right on, pitch curves good, and Boom the f#%^ing Align DFC head explodes. It spit a blade grip. That's twice I've had issues with this head. Idk why I tried this shitty head again.. There goes my Sunday. Nano time I guess... Sorry brother.
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Post by Valkman on Jan 13, 2013 19:32:08 GMT -4
Dam what happened? Did the grip bolt break or threads in the spindle give or what?
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Post by Chris Reibert on Jan 13, 2013 19:50:22 GMT -4
It looks like the screw came unthreaded. Everything was tight and loctited. I never like the play it had. The last Align DFC head had just as much slop. I was in a one foot hover setting up the BeastX and Boom! Blades went flying in two different directions... Luckily it went left and right and not back at me Everything was Align parts. It was a full head and swash combo I don't know why I went down the Align road again. That's why it went back to FB last time. Grrrr
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Post by Dr. Evil on Jan 13, 2013 20:15:08 GMT -4
It looks like the screw came unthreaded. Everything was tight and loctited. I never like the play it had. The last Align DFC head had just as much slop. I was in a one foot hover setting up the BeastX and Boom! Blades went flying in two different directions... Luckily it went left and right and not back at me Everything was Align parts. It was a full head and swash combo I don't know why I went down the Align road again. That's why it went back to FB last time. Grrrr WOW...glad you didn't get hit!
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Post by Chris Reibert on Jan 13, 2013 21:11:54 GMT -4
Ya that could have been bad... I ordered a FBL Tarot head non DFC with the follower links. Thank goodness for the Nano I stretched my fingers out a little today!
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