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Post by jgpncll on Feb 28, 2012 9:19:31 GMT -4
I know crashes happen in this hobby. Believe me, I have had my fair share of them.
It isn't necessarily the crash in this situation that makes me angry. It is what caused the crash. Whether it be the tail blades breaking and causing all of this or it being the tail boom breaking causing all of this. Like I said before. It all happened so fast I do not know exactly what caused this. I do know that a part had a severe failure in the air.
The tail blades never hit the ground in either flight, during takeoff or landing. We take off and land on mats at our field.
I am very tedious, thorough and anal retentive when it comes to building, assembling and setting up all of my helicopters and pretty much everything I do. I pay so much attention to detail and the small things in every aspect of my life. By no means am I saying that I don't make mistakes. What I am saying is that I took my time assembling and setting up this helicopter and I am 100% certain that this was not caused by error on my part; assembling, setting up or flying this machine.
Once I get replacement parts I will take more detailed photos of the parts once they are disassembled. At this point, the Chaos has been thrown in a closet and I am not looking at or touching it until I have all of the parts needed to repair it and get it back in the air.
This helicopter has been nothing but trouble since the day I received it. But once I finally got it together and got what I thought was all of the mechanical and fitment kinks ironed out I was very excited to fly it and was waiting until the weather was good enough to fly it. I was so excited I was planning on selling my Align 550 and just keep this one. After the first flight and how well it flew, was locked in and how powerful it was I was even more excited about it.
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Post by ghostflyer1 on Feb 28, 2012 15:47:16 GMT -4
Well when I got home last night and actually blew up the pictures, I can pretty much say that the carbon fiber tailboom failed based upon where the initial break was located... It is in my opinion a faulty tailboom which caused a catastrophic failure to happen. This is the first run of this heli and like all first runs there are going to be some mishaps.
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chaos666
PARK FLYER
RCA TEAM REP
About to build the Chaos 700 V2 prototype! :)
Posts: 59
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Post by chaos666 on Mar 28, 2012 1:30:33 GMT -4
I had a very similar incident last summer on my 3rd hover with my chaos 600. While hovering about 8 feet up in the air i watched the tail boom crack in half! Within seconds i was running for my life! I contacted Cliff at scaleflying.com and sent him all the pics of the carnage. Within less then a week a brand new chaos 600 was at my door. I rebuilt the new kit and before i put the new carbon fiber tail boom on i carefully inspected it. It had many imperfections in the carbon fiber, i took many pics and sent them back to Cliff and let him know i would never again be using their carbon fiber tail booms. I ordered up a brand new align metal tork tube got the heli all rebuilt and have never had an issue with it since. A few things i upgraded where all align ball links, align tork tube. Since using them align parts this heli has been absolutely ROCK SOLID. Over the winter i also converted the heli to FBL with an align 3g head and a Vbar. I have also upgraded alot of other parts like the landing gear and have also recently put an align tail on the heli. Customer service from Cliff was in all honesty pretty kickass. I did lose 300$ in some very nice new hv servo that where killed when my first chaos crashed! I think what needs to be done from Cliff and the quality control team is to include and align metal tork tube in the kits, or find a source to make them some nice metal tork tubes and be done with them poorly made carbon fiber tork tubes! Would i buy another chaos heli? Yes i would but knowing what i do now there would already be about 40$ in align parts at my house waiting to go on my new chaos heli!! Cheers Keith
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Post by Dr. Evil on Mar 28, 2012 8:41:54 GMT -4
@ chaos666, when you say switching to a "metal tork tube"...do you mean a "metal tail boom" instead of a carbon one? Just wondering as the TT is already metal and since your issue was with the carbon tail boom, I am assuming you're talking about using a metal tail boom vs. a carbon one.
I could only speculate that these incidences with the carbon tail boom are isolated otherwise we would hear alot more of this issue. Further more, I wonder if vibration from an unknown source can play a role in all this? Just my 2 cents since all my Chaos have carbon booms and never had any problems.
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Post by ghostflyer1 on Mar 28, 2012 13:45:15 GMT -4
I am pretty sure that is what he meant Dr. Evil...
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chaos666
PARK FLYER
RCA TEAM REP
About to build the Chaos 700 V2 prototype! :)
Posts: 59
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Post by chaos666 on Mar 28, 2012 16:51:26 GMT -4
@ chaos666, when you say switching to a "metal tork tube"...do you mean a "metal tail boom" instead of a carbon one? Just wondering as the TT is already metal and since your issue was with the carbon tail boom, I am assuming you're talking about using a metal tail boom vs. a carbon one. I could only speculate that these incidences with the carbon tail boom are isolated otherwise we would hear alot more of this issue. Further more, I wonder if vibration from an unknown source can play a role in all this? Just my 2 cents since all my Chaos have carbon booms and never had any problems. Search a few of the forums and you will find their have been a few issues with them carbon tail booms. When i had spoken with Cliff he had told me i was the first customer to experience this issue! Since then i have read on a few forums several other people having the same issue i had! Like many other members here this heli was built to the manual 100% and loctite everywhere it was required. During the first 2 hovers the heli was extremely stable and no signs of a vibration issue where present. Before flying any of my heli's i always give them a good look over as well. Everything seemed in working order and nothing was loose. Like i said, i watched the carbon fiber tail boom crack right in front of me! The replacement chaos 600 i was sent also had may imperfections and flaws in the carbon fiber tail boom. I sent many high resolution pictures back to Cliff and his crew at scale flying so they could have a good look at them. My thoughts on this issue are $10 buys you 2 align metal tail booms. For a chaos owner it is definately $10 wisely spent!! My heli has had alot of flights on it since being rebuilt and it always performs flawlessly! Cheers Keith
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Post by Dr. Evil on Mar 28, 2012 18:14:53 GMT -4
chaos666, i don't mean no harm or disrespect. That was just my observation but I am glad all is well since.
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chaos666
PARK FLYER
RCA TEAM REP
About to build the Chaos 700 V2 prototype! :)
Posts: 59
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Post by chaos666 on Mar 28, 2012 21:37:43 GMT -4
chaos666, i don't mean no harm or disrespect. That was just my observation but I am glad all is well since. Dr Evil i did not think you did!! LOL just thought id explaine my experience and how i solved my issues i had with the chaos line. I love my chaos 600 i just wish it didnt cost me a $300 loss in very high end servos to learn the tail boom was the weak leak in this amazing machine! cheers and no offence taken if what ive posted saves someone the same loss i had it will be worth posting my findings! Keith
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Post by ghostflyer1 on Mar 29, 2012 12:22:36 GMT -4
I have not had any problems with my tailbooms..... but it does get me to thinking what is the life span carbon fiber tailboom? how much stress does the tail put on it....? how many hours of stress can it take before it starts to weaken? aluminum is a given.
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Post by doc121 on Mar 29, 2012 18:12:55 GMT -4
Carbon fiber is light & the braid effect looks good, but I still think aluminum is the way to go. It doesn't weigh that much more & aluminum tailbooms are usually cheaper when the inevitable happens.
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Post by Dr. Evil on Mar 29, 2012 19:35:13 GMT -4
Carbon fiber is light & the braid effect looks good, but I still think aluminum is the way to go. It doesn't weigh that much more & aluminum tailbooms are usually cheaper when the inevitable happens. I am guessing everyone fancys "carbon fiber" but in some cases aluminum can actually be lighter than CF, it all depends on how the fibers are layed and the process that goes into making a certain piece or part.
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Post by jgpncll on Mar 31, 2012 1:02:59 GMT -4
@ chaos666, when you say switching to a "metal tork tube"...do you mean a "metal tail boom" instead of a carbon one? Just wondering as the TT is already metal and since your issue was with the carbon tail boom, I am assuming you're talking about using a metal tail boom vs. a carbon one. I could only speculate that these incidences with the carbon tail boom are isolated otherwise we would hear alot more of this issue. Further more, I wonder if vibration from an unknown source can play a role in all this? Just my 2 cents since all my Chaos have carbon booms and never had any problems. Seriously? How much is Cliff paying you or how vested in RCAerodyne are you to troll around all of the forums doing everything you can to place the blame on everything/everyone but the Chaos brand helicopters when a Chaos CLONED part fails? You are still "speculating or assuming" that since a Chaos part has failed that there is no possible way that it could be a faulty component from a kit that is in fact a CLONE. You insinuating that a Chaos part failure must be from a vibration of an unknown source is just ridiculous. The only things that Chaos did differently on this 550 is to make the frame wider and add a 3rd bearing block. Woohooo, I bet that was hard to do and took many man hours to research and develope! Yeah, let Align do all of the research and development, change two things that anyone could do with parts that you are copying(CLONING) and are already readily available and then call it an improved/upgraded version. When, in fact it is a much lower quality kit that is inferior in every way to the "Kit" that it is supposed to be better than. Your 2 cents are absolutely worthless when it comes to this site or any other forum! And no, it isn't just me that thinks this. I have had many people on multiple forums contact me stating what they think about you and how they think you are in some way vested/being paid by RCAerodyne. Back to the SUBJECT of this thread: I finally found time to repair and order all parts to reassemble my Chalign 550. Here are the parts that I replaced with QUALITY Align parts: All of these parts were replaced for a reason, whether it be the boom being poor quality, boom clamp not holding, radial or lateral runout in gears, poor gear mesh etc. etc. Tail boom Torque tube Front torque tube gears Rear torque tube gears 600 E Pro rear frame brace Main gear hub/bearing Main gear Autorotation gear Tail boom clamp Tail boom supports Tail carbon control rod Tail blades V2 tail blade grips with thrust bearings For anyone that is considering purchasing a Chaos helicopter I would strongly recommend that you consider the cost of replacing poor/faulty parts with quality parts. In the end you will end up paying the same price or less without all of the headaches of finding out the hard way that you purchased a CHEAP CLONE. RCAerodyne does have great customer support but in my opinion that does not make having to deal with all of these issues worth it. If I had to do it all over again I would have purchased the Align kit, sold the electronics that I did not want and purchase the electronics that I did want to put in the heli. Dr. Evil, if you see anything in the photos that may cause a vibration from an unknown source, please let me know
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Post by Dr. Evil on Mar 31, 2012 14:29:49 GMT -4
@ chaos666, when you say switching to a "metal tork tube"...do you mean a "metal tail boom" instead of a carbon one? Just wondering as the TT is already metal and since your issue was with the carbon tail boom, I am assuming you're talking about using a metal tail boom vs. a carbon one. I could only speculate that these incidences with the carbon tail boom are isolated otherwise we would hear alot more of this issue. Further more, I wonder if vibration from an unknown source can play a role in all this? Just my 2 cents since all my Chaos have carbon booms and never had any problems. Seriously? How much is Cliff paying you or how vested in RCAerodyne are you to troll around all of the forums doing everything you can to place the blame on everything/everyone but the Chaos brand helicopters when a Chaos CLONED part fails? You are still "speculating or assuming" that since a Chaos part has failed that there is no possible way that it could be a faulty component from a kit that is in fact a CLONE. You insinuating that a Chaos part failure must be from a vibration of an unknown source is just ridiculous. The only things that Chaos did differently on this 550 is to make the frame wider and add a 3rd bearing block. Woohooo, I bet that was hard to do and took many man hours to research and develope! Yeah, let Align do all of the research and development, change two things that anyone could do with parts that you are copying(CLONING) and are already readily available and then call it an improved/upgraded version. When, in fact it is a much lower quality kit that is inferior in every way to the "Kit" that it is supposed to be better than. Your 2 cents are absolutely worthless when it comes to this site or any other forum! And no, it isn't just me that thinks this. I have had many people on multiple forums contact me stating what they think about you and how they think you are in some way vested/being paid by RCAerodyne. Back to the SUBJECT of this thread: I finally found time to repair and order all parts to reassemble my Chalign 550. Here are the parts that I replaced with QUALITY Align parts: All of these parts were replaced for a reason, whether it be the boom being poor quality, boom clamp not holding, radial or lateral runout in gears, poor gear mesh etc. etc. Tail boom Torque tube Front torque tube gears Rear torque tube gears 600 E Pro rear frame brace Main gear hub/bearing Main gear Autorotation gear Tail boom clamp Tail boom supports Tail carbon control rod Tail blades V2 tail blade grips with thrust bearings For anyone that is considering purchasing a Chaos helicopter I would strongly recommend that you consider the cost of replacing poor/faulty parts with quality parts. In the end you will end up paying the same price or less without all of the headaches of finding out the hard way that you purchased a CHEAP CLONE. RCAerodyne does have great customer support but in my opinion that does not make having to deal with all of these issues worth it. If I had to do it all over again I would have purchased the Align kit, sold the electronics that I did not want and purchase the electronics that I did want to put in the heli. Dr. Evil, if you see anything in the photos that may cause a vibration from an unknown source, please let me know WOW, where do you have the nerve to come on here after countless support that was given to you in all the issues you had encountered??? So that I 've explain this correctly to anyone who may be reading this when I say "issues you had encountered". It is exactly that, "issues" only you have encountered. Sure, there were a few things that needed to be addressed but than again...it wasn't anything that was news to anyone once the kits came out. As like any other "first run", there always be likely to have a few. No big deal, it was and always will be taken care of by RCA. What gets me about your latest rant on here is the fact that my reply wasn't even about/to you. I merely suggest that a "vibration from an unknown source" could of played a role in someone else's issue. Do you not understand the words "I wonder"? It does not mean that it actually happened, it means that I was just guessing if indeed it could of happened....a big difference. It was the exact way I've put it when your tail boom snapped right at the point of the tail section where the 2 bolts was. "I wonder" if you've over torqued it? Seriously? How much is Cliff paying you or how vested in RCAerodyne are you to troll around all of the forums doing everything you can to place the blame on everything/everyone but the Chaos brand helicopters when a Chaos CLONED part fails?If you must know, I DO NOT GET A DIME doing what I am doing for RCA. I am here on this forum helping and supporting this hobby just like any members is doing. The only difference between me and the others here is that I manage and run it. The fact that I love the Chaos brand has motived me even more to do so. I would love to see where I've gone around to all other forums doing everything to blame "everything/everyone" about faulty Chaos parts. Point it out, like I said...I would love to see them but until then don't make it sound like I am going around doing something that I am not. Further more, what I don't get is that you are on here trashing and bashing about the Chaos so much cause you hate and can't stand the fact that it's a "clone" but yet you couldn't wait to get one prior to the release date when it was posted on here. The fact is that you seem to be the only one that have had all these issues and problems above and beyond anyone else here or on other forums. Still I am not sure why you have came on here and posted/replied to a comment I left for someone else?...perhaps to start trouble? For whatever the reason, you've done yourself disjustice by bashing me and the Chaos brand. The list of parts you replaced with Align was not necessary but maybe in your eyes it was but I did not have to replace anything (and no RCA didn't pay me to say that either ), there are plenty of ppl out there that are using all stock parts from the kit. I've try to be as professional as possible with you but you're the kind that just likes to complain about nothing and that you know everything so you couldn't possibly by wrong if someone was trying to give you an advise. That said, I 've nothing else to say to you anymore and I hope you keep your 550 off the ground cause I will guarantee you this, you'll not get support from RCA if you crash this time.
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Post by tt408 on Mar 31, 2012 16:18:41 GMT -4
I don't get it. He buys a clone and than complains about buying a clone. I have bought both clones and Align products, for me the clones have worked out well for my type of flying. You always have some issues to work out on the clones and anything else for that matter. As for the costumer service where else can you get that with a clone
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drev
FUN FLYER
Posts: 198
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Post by drev on Mar 31, 2012 16:40:30 GMT -4
Sounds like................123.
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