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Post by Dr. Evil on Feb 27, 2012 11:20:21 GMT -4
I did not see till now you posted on rcgroups as well. Here is my post if you missed it....... Would the part you saw flying off the heli be the linkage ball on the tail bearing holder? Your missing it from a pic above and you then said straight away after you saw this it started the piro's so this could explain that. Looking at your 8 pic down it looked like it was spinning on its side when it hit because the tail supports are bent to the side. The hard landing would then have done the damage to the boom and the other parts. I believe he is saying that the tail came off in mid flight b/c the tail boom had broke clean off right at where the fixing hole and the mounting bolts are located. This will also explain that what he is saying here...... "Did a forward flip, a little shaky. Though gain issue. A few seconds after the forward flip I saw something fall off of the heli." From photos 10 through 15, you can see that its pretty clear that the breakage is what I've described above.
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Post by jgpncll on Feb 27, 2012 11:31:31 GMT -4
I'm going to contact RCAerodyne tomorrow. I can't find any of the parts on their website. I hope they are available so I can get this thing back together and get rid of it. Sorry to see that this has happened dube but to say that it's "junk" is a bit harsh don't you think? I understand you're upset that it crashed. Yes, there were a few minor issues with the build process but thats exactly what it was and not poor materials being used to produce this kit. As the way you've described the incident, the tail had came off at mid flight and from seeing the pics. where the carbon boom was separated seems to me that this was caused by over tightening of the tail clamp bolts (the 2 bolts that holds the vertical stabilizer). It's pretty clear from the photos that the break is exactly where the "fixing hole" of the boom and the clamp area of those 2 bolts are. I've learned this along time ago not to over tightening those bolts as it can break the carbon boom. (Something to think about: the carbon boom is already slightly weakened by having a hole there so any extra force can cause it to break easier). Those 2 bolts needs to be only snug with "threadlock" applied as it's basic purpose is to secure the vertical stablizer and to hold the boom but as far as the boom going anywhere is being taken care of by the stud on the tail with the fixing hole. Once its properly tighten, the boom isn't going anywhere. The spare parts should be arriving soon if it hasn't already by now. I know even the 550 kit is not listed as it is currently out of stock. Try and contact them and see if this can all be resolved. Good luck. The clamp bolts were not overtightened at all. Were you present at the time that I was assembling and securing the fasteners that hold the tail case in place? No, you were not. I know for a fact that they were not overtightened. You can see in the photos that this isn't the case. Yes, the boom broke where the set hole is. But just because it broke where the hole is I guess it is from me overtightening it because these are such high quality kits that there is in no way that it could be a defective part. Is that what you are saying? I have had carbon booms on many of my other helicopters and never have I had this issue. So I must be overtightening the clamps. Junk, no, it's not harsh. It is exactly what it is. This is just my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to my opinion. The quality control on these helicopters is Horrible at best. There are so many inconsistencies from kit to kit it is absolutely ridiculous and totally unacceptable. Properly tightened? It was properly tightened and the boom did not go anywhere. The piece of s___ broke off in flight.
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Post by jgpncll on Feb 27, 2012 11:46:17 GMT -4
I did not see till now you posted on rcgroups as well. Here is my post if you missed it....... Would the part you saw flying off the heli be the linkage ball on the tail bearing holder? Your missing it from a pic above and you then said straight away after you saw this it started the piro's so this could explain that. Looking at your 8 pic down it looked like it was spinning on its side when it hit because the tail supports are bent to the side. The hard landing would then have done the damage to the boom and the other parts. I believe he is saying that the tail came off in mid flight b/c the tail boom had broke clean off right at where the fixing hole and the mounting bolts are located. This will also explain that what he is saying here...... "Did a forward flip, a little shaky. Though gain issue. A few seconds after the forward flip I saw something fall off of the heli." From photos 10 through 15, you can see that its pretty clear that the breakage is what I've described above. It's not clear at all that the breakage is what you've described above. You are just assuming that is what happened because you refuse to believe that a Chaos part has failed. You've never had a Chaos part fail?
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Post by ghostflyer1 on Feb 27, 2012 12:10:06 GMT -4
Matter of fact I had my Rev1 GT9 gyro fail, and Cliff took care of me.. I have had parts fail on Aligns, as mentioned before, my chaos, my gaui my KDS, I have let the magic smoke out of esc's from align, kds, and CC.
I have a question, did you notice any odd vibrations on your first flight. Its highly possible that it stress fractured in mid air.... had that happen on my KDS 450. Hell lookup KDS 450 Opppsss and you will see it jump 50 feet up and backwards when it spit a tail blade... Failures will happen normally when you least need them.
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Post by Dr. Evil on Feb 27, 2012 12:14:31 GMT -4
It's not clear at all that the breakage is what you've described above. You are just assuming that is what happened because you refuse to believe that a Chaos part has failed. You've never had a Chaos part fail? I am not out to attack you on this issue, I am clearly stating the fact that "you" said the tail fell off in mid flight..not me. The fact that the broken area is where the bolts and fixing hole is located shows where the problem was. You're correct, I wasn't there at the time of your build but I didn't need to be as your photos clearly shows where the problem was. That being said, there's no need to be defensive about this....it happens, it happens to all of us. This is not to say "you over tightened it" but what does one consider something is being "over tightened"?....the difference between a half of newton meters can cause plenty issues. My other pasion is cycling and I've build plenty of bikes in my time, particularly carbon fiber ones. There are many parts and components that has torque specs. which if not followed correctly can cause something being broken. Unfortunely, there arn't any specs like that on building a RC heli...just something you've to learn by trial and error but purhaps gaining knowledge from watching a build video or someone telling you about it. I will not go on with this cause my first reply to you was never meant to attack you on this issue but to point out the probable cause but you gotta ask yourself this....why did the boom break at that spot and not anywhere else. If that carbon boom was a piece of crap, why didn't it break in another area......just saying. I wish you luck with getting this issue resolved.
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Post by jgpncll on Feb 27, 2012 12:16:52 GMT -4
Matter of fact I had my Rev1 GT9 gyro fail, and Cliff took care of me.. I have had parts fail on Aligns, as mentioned before, my chaos, my gaui my KDS, I have let the magic smoke out of esc's from align, kds, and CC. I have a question, did you notice any odd vibrations on your first flight. Its highly possible that it stress fractured in mid air.... had that happen on my KDS 450. Hell lookup KDS 450 Opppsss and you will see it jump 50 feet up and backwards when it spit a tail blade... Failures will happen normally when you least need them. First flight went very well with no vibrations on any kind. That is the only reason I flew a second flight. If there had been any vibrations of any sort I would have troubleshooted the problem in normal mode before flying in idle up.
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Post by jgpncll on Feb 27, 2012 12:21:26 GMT -4
It's not clear at all that the breakage is what you've described above. You are just assuming that is what happened because you refuse to believe that a Chaos part has failed. You've never had a Chaos part fail? I am not out to attack you on this issue, I am clearly stating the fact that "you" said the tail fell off in mid flight..not me. The fact that the broken area is where the bolts and fixing hole is located shows where the problem was. You're correct, I wasn't there at the time of your build but I didn't need to be as your photos clearly shows where the problem was. That being said, there's no need to be defensive about this....it happens, it happens to all of us. This is not to say "you over tightened it" but what does one consider something is being "over tightened"?....the difference between a half of newton meters can cause plenty issues. My other pasion is cycling and I've build plenty of bikes in my time, particularly carbon fiber ones. There are many parts and components that has torque specs. which if not followed correctly can cause something being broken. Unfortunely, there arn't any specs like that on building a RC heli...just something you've to learn by trail and error but purhaps gaining knowledge from watching a build video or someone telling you about it. I will not go on with this cause my first reply to you was never meant to attack you on this issue but to point out the probable cause but you gotta ask yourself this....why did the boom break at that spot and not anywhere else. If that carbon boom was a piece of crap, why didn't it break in another area......just saying. I wish you luck with getting this issue resolved. That's exactly what you are doing. You are clearly stating that just by looking at a photo you know for sure 100% that I over tightened the boom clamp fasteners. If that isn't attacking I don't know what is. You weren't there during the build, you weren't there when this happened, and you have not seen the parts in person. Yet you are saying with certainty that I over tightened the boom clamp fasteners. I wish I knew why the boom broke where it broke. The answer I keep coming up with is poor craftsmanship of the component and poor quality control of the component.
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Post by ghostflyer1 on Feb 27, 2012 13:23:57 GMT -4
Fact is... It did happen, now lets try to figure out how and why and fix it so that your happy with your bird...
Oh and for some reason I cannot find pics anywhere using any browser....
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Post by jgpncll on Feb 27, 2012 14:22:27 GMT -4
Fact is... It did happen, now lets try to figure out how and why and fix it so that your happy with your bird... Oh and for some reason I cannot find pics anywhere using any browser.... Agreed. I will retract my "Junk" statement once I get the parts to repair it and I get at least 20 successful, problem free flights out of it. Until then it is what it is at this point. And I will let Dr. Evil apply the correct tighness(torque) to the boom clamp bolts since according to him I do not know how to do it. ;D I have contacted RCA and spoken to Robert. I also emailed him a list of parts that I need to get the heli back in the air and photos of the carnage. The ball is in their court now.
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drev
FUN FLYER
Posts: 198
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Post by drev on Feb 27, 2012 17:38:14 GMT -4
jgpncll, when you have a mechanical failure on your car/truck does that mean the whole line of that particular vehicle is "JUNK"? Just wondering....Fly safe... Drev.
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Post by jgpncll on Feb 27, 2012 18:03:55 GMT -4
jgpncll, when you have a mechanical failure on your car/truck does that mean the whole line of that particular vehicle is "JUNK"? Just wondering....Fly safe... Drev. Absolutely.
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Post by jeb1974 on Feb 27, 2012 18:35:11 GMT -4
When I called RCA do find out when 550's would be in stock again they said it would be a few months because "they've got some bugs to work out". Since it's a brand new model it's not unreasonable to expect some growing pains.
IMO, it's only a problem if a lot of them fail or if the distributor/ manufacturer does nothing about it. They're already doing something right by holding off production on the next batch and we'll see what they do here.
I'm not saying that is or isn't the case in this situation but I'm more interested to see what happens. I think customer service is just as important as the product itself.
BTW, I couldn't wait any longer so I bought a Trex 550 on the weekend (although I would've bought a Chaos if they were in stock.) There are too many good things said about the Chaos helicopters and the company on the net for it to be a crappy product with bad support.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by Dr. Evil on Feb 27, 2012 20:02:58 GMT -4
When I called RCA do find out when 550's would be in stock again they said it would be a few months because "they've got some bugs to work out". Since it's a brand new model it's not unreasonable to expect some growing pains. IMO, it's only a problem if a lot of them fail or if the distributor/ manufacturer does nothing about it. They're already doing something right by holding off production on the next batch and we'll see what they do here. I'm not saying that is or isn't the case in this situation but I'm more interested to see what happens. I think customer service is just as important as the product itself. BTW, I couldn't wait any longer so I bought a Trex 550 on the weekend (although I would've bought a Chaos if they were in stock.) There are too many good things said about the Chaos helicopters and the company on the net for it to be a crappy product with bad support. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for the support and you're are absolutely correct about their products and customer service. I am not being bias when I say this but I own pretty much their entire Chaos line of helis and when I came across with a few small issues I had in the past, they always took care of me. Again, I know it's not just me...as many can confirm this...their customer service is top notch. As far as their products go, the Chaos is not just your typical "CLONE"...matter of fact I never really consider it as such due to their superior quality in materials used as well as their upgraded options right out of the box. It is however 100% compatible to the Trex but your just not paying that price and with more options to choose your electronics which attracts many people that is looking for an alternative. Parts fail and that is the reality, doesn't matter what make, model or brand...they all have some issues but its the product support after the sale is what sold me as a customer for life with RCA. Jeb, thanks for posting...hang around as we've a section just for the Trex here you can share your experiences with others.
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Post by ghostflyer1 on Feb 27, 2012 21:12:59 GMT -4
The Trex is a good bird I think you will enjoy it. Dont try to convert it to a belt drive, I know a guy here who did that and is now chasing down some wierd vibration that keeps freaking out the gyro.
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bobsp12
FUN FLYER
The CHAOS theory rules my life
Posts: 155
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Post by bobsp12 on Feb 28, 2012 6:57:13 GMT -4
That is a nasty crash jgpncll, I can understand why you are peed off. I have seen some videos of the same thing happening on some of the Align series helis....if a tail rotor blade was to let go, the vibration would instantly tear the tail off like this. It happens so quickly that you would not even notice the blade loss. I have had both blades come off the tail of a 450 and didn't even see them go. Extreme vibration from a failure of a component can manifest itself at a point away from the vibration. Did you have a tail rotor blade touch the ground on your previous flight or on take off for the flight you crashed on. When such an accident happens, I realise how angry and frustrated you become...we have all been there, but it's important that you get to the bottom of the cause without jumping to conclusions. Besides getting your heli back together, there is a need to make sure it doesn't happen again. I notice in the pics of the tail case that there is some material either missing from around the hole that the locating pin goes into the boom, or else the pin is not centred in the hole and crushed the boom. I am not suggesting any fault here, just an observation...the pics are a bit small for making any real conclusions. I hope you get your heli sorted out and back into the air soon.
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